hui to discuss non-commercial fishing interests and Maori customary
Thursday 28th July
Mataitai and Taiapure
- Mataitai - Who decides what is an appropriate size of a mataitai?
- MFish have already said that the Kaipara cannot be managed as
a separate QMA. Given this, could an area such as the Kaipara
be managed as a mataitai? If not, are there any other tools available
that can deliver what we are asking for?
The Minister makes the final
decision in regards to a mataitai but he does it in conjunction
with tangata whenua. MFish acknowledge their processes for getting
advice from tangata whenua for the Minister needs improving.
The law doesn't prescribe
the size of a mataitai, how big or small it can be. Ministry are
looking to pull together all the tools available under the Fisheries
Act and put it into a fisheries plan. Ministry hope all fishing
and environmental interests will have input into the fisheries plans
in the future.
A taiapure was a possible
solution; Akaroa was given as an example where a taiapure application
had been made for the entire harbour and included in that was several
If a taiapure is the appropriate
management tool for a harbour, is it possible to constrain the amount
of commercial catch taken from a taiapure?
A taiapure is essentially
a community based management scheme, a tool that came out of the
1989 interim settlement with tangata whenua. All interests can be
involved in its management.
Mataitai are specific management
tools for tangata whenua. Tools that help to better define and utilise
their customary rights. "Mataitai is a much more powerful tool
in terms of protecting and enhancing customary fishing rights."
Mataitai management is lead by tangata whenua but can include
others from the community.
"Both tools are important
and powerful but it depends what you are trying to achieve. They
can be used together or separately. The important thing is, both
tools are driven by tangata whenua, not the Ministry of Fisheries,
not non-commercial fishers, not commercial fishers but tangata whenua."
A taiapure committee can
recommend to the Minister regulations that exclude commercial fishing
from that area, " but it has to go through due process".
[Terry Lynch MFish (TL)]
" There is no limitation on the size of a mataitai, in law,
but there are certain limitations." A mataitai cannot do the
- "It can't prevent the local people taking their fish in
the area. If it does then it doesn't say the mataitai doesn't
go ahead, but the Minister has to sit down with the applicants
and work out a way to move it forward."
- "It can't prevent recreational or non-commercial fishers
taking their fish in the FMA."
- "It can't prevent commercial fishers taking their quota
in the Quota Management Area."
[TL] "If you are starting
to look at applying for all the hapu's rohe, the first fellas of
the block will probably get it. The last fellas off the block wont."
Planning needs to be done with other hapu and iwi for each
[TL] " There is no law
that says you couldn't manage the Kaipara as a mataitai but you
bet your bottom dollar it will be the only one." Because of
the size of the Kaipara and it as a proportion of the FMA, then
it is likely to be the only mataitai in that whole FMA. There will
be repercussions for other iwi and hapu if a mataitai the size of
the Kaipara goes ahead.
Commercial fishing is automatically
excluded from a mataitai. Commercial fishing can be allowed back
in under conditions that have been agreed with the Minister of Fisheries.
Many initiatives from tangata
whenua have failed due to the general public objecting to the plans,
without fully understanding the potential of Maori customary management
MFish were asked what their
intentions were in regards to advertising and educating the general
public on the intricacies and benefits of Maori customary management
tools. Also whether there was a budget for such activity.
Ministry accept that "the
general public are poorly informed about the way we manage fisheries
in New Zealand and what tools are available at the Minister's discretion.
The new CEO of the Ministry of Fisheries has established a whole
new unit to manage external communications, to get publications,
TV, [info] out there to the general public. So we are starting down
that path now, basically a proper educational programme. For tangata
whenua we are doing something quite specific. We have appointed
the Pou Hononga to actually work face to face with tangata whenua
on what is available to tangata whenua, the various tools etc. also
extension workers to help."
It was pointed out the Ministry
have a lot of work to do in raising awareness of the tools before
they even start implementing any as the public are generally ignorant,
as are many tangata whenua, of the potential. As for a "race" to
get the first applications in for mataitai or taiapure before the
next hapu or iwi, this is not good enough. Everyone has a right
to be fully informed before the process is underway so they don't
miss out purely because they are oblivious to what is happening
in other areas.
- What species will benefit most from mataitai and taiapure and
what are the respective sizes of area the Ministry envisages these
tools will encompass?
What can be the whole cumulative
affect of all the excluded areas as they pertain to a commercial
fisherman's ability to catch his quota entitlement in a QMA? If
10% is excluded through marine protected areas, how much of the
remaining 90% of the available space will be available for mataitai
is to have 10% of the area closed in
marine protected areas. Marine protected areas is just not
marine reserves. Mataitai and other fisheries closures can be counted
as part of that 10%... if they are making a contribution to marine
"There is no magic answer
to 'how much', the law provides for, in legal terms, is a 'prevent
test'." The prevent test would be explained in more detail
in another session by Russell Burnard.
Concerns were expressed for
iwi/hapu that are not aware of the potential 'race' for space in
establishing mataitai or taiapure. The regional forums are a way
the Ministry see of iwi/hapu to get informed about what is happening
and work together to achieve establishment of management tools.
MFish are not keen to sit back and do nothing.
Aotea (Great Barrier)
Objections were raised about
the approved 50,000 ha Aotea (Great Barrier) marine reserve. The
impact on tangata whenua does not seem to have been taken into account.
Local iwi had applied in December 2004 for their rohe moana and
eight months later they still have not had been given any information
regarding Maori customary regulations and tools, despite this the
marine reserve is progressing.
MFish's role in the Aotea
application process currently underway is consultation with all
fishers to determine what impact the reserve would have on them.
" If the Minister of Fisheries determines that there is an undue
impact on customary fishing, non-commercial fishing and commercial
fishing he can decline that proposal. We are still going through
that proposal. The Ministry of Fisheries will start that consultation
process later this year." Stan made a commitment that the
Ministry would go to the marae on Aotea, with the Pou Hononga, to
consult on the impact of the proposed reserve on customary interests,
when consultation gets underway.
- How is the customary allowance determined?
The Fisheries Act sets the
process for setting allowances. In terms of customary allowance,
the Minister has to set that first. The Minister does that by using
the best available information. MFish accept they do not
currently have good information on harvest levels. Once the customary
regulations are fully implemented it is hoped better information
will be available through the gathering of harvest records from
- If the Ministry are ultimately responsible for fisheries management.
What equitable resourcing will be made available to tangata whenua
and their communities to develop and build management capacity
to maintain the tools of taiapure and mataitai to assist fisheries
management? How have all these mataitai and taiapure been established
around the country without assisting them to financially manage
MFish resources are constrained.
$20,000 per annum has been allocated to run each of the regional
forums mentioned earlier in the discussion. The Ministry are willing
to discuss with each forum how that money is used. MFish staff will
assist the forums and the extension workers will help the forums
develop their fisheries plans.
Long term it is hoped the
Ministry will be able to pay, by way of a contract, the regional
forums to develop the fisheries plans. This will empower the regional
forum to manage the plan and its implementation with Ministry support.
Carl Ross, manager of the
new Cultural Relationship unit, presented a video to give some background
to the Pou Hononga unit, its staff and their business plan. Eleven
Pou Hononga have been appointed to work with Maori around the country,
one administration person and two managers. A database is being
compiled of Maori contacts to be used for distribution of information.
The Ministry envisage up
to 14 regional forums being established, currently only three are
operational. Tai Tokerau will have two forums funded by MFish; Te
Rarawa north will be one forum. Their objective is to build the
capacity and capability of Maori to participate in fisheries management.
It is also to build capacity within the Ministry for working with
The Ministry will work with
the people to determine how big the regional forums will be, there
is no limit to how many people participate in the forums. [CR]
"Under the Deed of Settlement the forums are customary."
Further discussion on the
regional forums continued into the night.
Hori Porata of Ngati Wai
explained the existence of a regional forum that already deals with
resource, sustainable management and development issues. The forum
meets every six weeks to discuss matters of a regional and national
Ngapuhi do not want a segregated
Maori regional forum. It would be better if the forum included non-commercial
fishing interests. Together it would be more powerful and effective.
There was strong agreement from Maori and recreational non-commercial
fishing interests present at the hui that a joint forum would be
beneficial to achieve our goal of "more fish in the water" "Kia
maha atu nga ika i roto te wai"
There was willingness amongst
those at the hui to do what we can to help the Ministry achieve
what needs to be done to reach the common goal.
The Ministry have already
completed the selection process for the recreational regional forums,
the appointees are yet to be announced. Nominations were called
from the public through advertising. That process cannot be undone
The hui disagreed with the
separate process, considering most Maori fishing is categorised
as recreational. Ministry reiterated that the Maori forums were
part of the settlement agreement between the Crown and Maori. Tangata
whenua can choose who they wish to participate in their forums.
Ministry's goal is to develop
multi-sector input into fisheries plans. Ministry do not believe
the various non-commercial groups are very well organised, the forums
are an attempt to achieve more organisation. MFish are not being
critical of existing organisations but believe it is the wider public
that is not well represented.
The suggestion that recreational
fishers are not organised was offensive to some and it was suggested
that it was MFish who was not organised.
The recreational regional
forums are an initiative from the Minister of Fisheries. The customary
forums are borne out of the Deed of Settlement. Both forums are
limited in the support being provided by Ministry. It was pointed
out that regional forums have been tried before and the only one
that still exists is the southern forum, which had enjoyed more
support from MFish compared to other forums. Ministry could not
guarantee the new forums would survive long term but they were willing
to try the new format being proposed.
Marine Protected Areas
- What will qualify a mataitai as a marine protected area?
of Conservation and the Ministry of Fisheries are presently working
on a Marine Protected Areas (MPA) strategy and its near [ready]
to sign off. The critical part of the MPA strategy is the development
of a protection standard. We need standards so we can evaluate it.
If there are bylaws within the mataitai that contribute to and meet
the protection standard then it will be counted." The Ministry
is committed to consulting on those standards later in the year
and into early 2006. Consultation will be with customary, recreational
and commercial fishers. If the northern regional forum is operating
by that time then the Ministry will be consulting with that group.
From the discussions held
it is obvious mataitai and taiapure are not sufficient tools to
deal with issues relating to finfish.
Friday 29th July
The MFish team conducted
a session on the customary management tools available to Maori.
It generated, at times, heated discussion on the practicality of
implementing these tools as many at the hui had already tried to
have rahui, mataitai and taiapure established in their rohe. Some
of those experiences had not been constructive and many felt the
Ministry were not as supportive of their initiatives as they could
Non-commercial fishing interests
fully recognise and respect customary Maori fishing rights. Ngapuhi
have acknowledged that a significant portion of their catch is categorised
as recreational. This shows the 'sameness' of our interests, we
need the same things to get what we want from the fishery. We all
need to get this message out to our respective groups.
A working group made up of
representatives from Maori, MFish and non-commercial fishing interests
drafted a document overnight. This draft was presented to the hui
participants in order to gather agreement.
An excellent discussion focussed
around this draft continued during the morning session. This document
would be given to MFish to take to the Minister as an agreed outcome
from all. It was important to make it simple, clear and concise.
The document, Hui outcome 29 7 05
(Appendix Three) was agreed upon and
passed unanimously by those at the hui. This was given to Stan Crothers
to deliver to the Minister at a meeting scheduled within four days
of the conclusion of the hui.
It was agreed that this had
been another successful hui ably chaired by Sonny Tau. People had
learnt a great deal and there was great anticipation for the first
forum to settle on the terms of reference, a Memorandum of Understanding
and a strategic plan for the combined forum. The Ministry made a
commitment to remove the impediments for Maori to achieve successful
outcomes in the use of the customary management tools. The opportunity
to work together to achieve the common goal was welcome and the
commitment was there from customary, MFish and non-commercial fishing
in the water"
maha atu nga ika i roto te wai"